Young students of Scoil Padraig Naofa, Rochestown, Orla, Sorcha, Clodagh and Sarah, were welcomed by Cllr Desmond.
We took Cllr Forde’s motion now:
“That the Engineer gives a written report on
- The status of improvement design for Coach Hill and outline possible funding streams for the project which is urgently needed on safety issues.
- In the interim cut back the shrubbery to widen the roadway.
Improve lighting for pedestrians.”
Cllr Forde: Is exceptionally proud that these young girls took the time to get a petition together to encourage the Council to take action. The design office did a preliminary design for Coach Hill. It needs land take and a set back of a private boundary. I ask councillors to consider that we move to CPO in terms of the long term strategy. In the short term, the girls are looking for the hedging be cut back to widen the pinch point and put in extra lighting. It has been suggested that there are too many traffic lights on Clarke’s Hill; perhaps some of the money could be siphoned off to put lights on Coach Hill. WE will also write to bus Eireann to ask for a bus shelter. The principal is also very proud of them.
The girls hand over a petition with over 220 signatures.
Cllr D’Alton: When I was elected, my very first job was to look at widening the pinch point on Coach Hill so a footpath could go in – Safer Routes to Schools initiative. Area Office was helpful, initiated land search on the fallow land adjacent, found it was CCC and asked the design office to do a preliminary design. Was started and progressed but always in a half-hearted way because there has never been any funding. There was for Clarke’s Hill but not for Coach Hill. We never have a roads meeting pass in here without one of us mentioning Coach Hill. Especially concerned because M28 planning application showed that should the motorway go ahead, the volume of traffic on Coach Hill will increase significantly. Also concerned because when Clarke’s Hill is being upgraded, there is a risk that traffic will be diverted down Coach Hill. We will continue to support and to look for funding.
Cllr McGrath: Coach Hill has many residential estates and two schools in the area yet there is no footpath and safe walking area. We’ve all tried to address it. It was brought up even again this week at the Southern Committee meeting. The issue of the land is one thing but if the funding was found there’d be a way around that; the funding hasn’t been secured though. The area is due to be transferred into the city in 12 months or so and we must be mindful that we don’t take our foot off the pedal. Well done again for raising the issue. Has a motion in for this meeting in relation to increasing pedestrian safety around the school.
Cllr Jeffers: We are always aware that Coach Hill is in need of serious improvement. We can’t take our foot off the pedal in terms of the transfer into the city. Commended for playing your part in the democratic process. Fantastic to do so at such a young age. Played a significant part in democracy in trying to improve your own community. Cllr Canty was saying that he is now 27 years a councillor so there may be a vacancy arising at some stage in the future.
Cllr Harris: Congratulates the girl and school and parents and Cllr Forde for facilitating it. When you hear personal experiences about walking up the hill and going to school, it focuses the minds. When you meet people it is much stronger than paper and maps. You’ve done a great service coming in here today.
Cllr Murphy: Congratulations. Supports Cllr Forde’s motion. We had all dealt with Coach Hill over a period and we have seen how people power worked in Passage West lately.
Cllr Canty: Coach Hill has been on the map for a long time over the years. Health and safety is a No. 1 issue. Fair play to the girls for raising this. The girls have come in to highlight the dangers. Fair play to Cllr Forde and to the girls for starting he petition. Don’t lie on it. Keep knocking on the door. Lots of things get lost here in paper. Keep it up and hopefully in time the money will come.
Cllr Desmond: As Chairperson, I had a very interesting and engaging conversation outside. Effort and energy have gone into this. We have adults who don’t participate in what is going on in their local area and this is huge credit to get 222 signatures. That road has not changed from my memory of childhood. There have been some great improvements in Rochestown – this is the last piece of the puzzle. The Council needs to be credited for the work that has gone up there. We now have your school. It has 500 pupils and is ever-increasing. Very good to see 5thclass students who are about to finish in school caring about the future of those coming up behind them. It is impossible to cycle on that hill and walking isn’t much better. We will keep fighting your corner.
1. To consider the confirmation and signing of the Minutes of the Ordinary Meeting held on 20thMarch 2018.
Minutes of previous meeting
Confirmed – Cllrs Canty and D’Alton
2. Consideration of recommendations and reports
(i) Report to Members on YourCouncil.ie.
Report on YourCouncil
We will defer this to May.
(ii) Housing Report for Ballincollig/Carrigaline Municipal District April 2018.
Housing report for BCMD
(i) Correspondence TII re N28 – Douglas Exit to R609, Carrigaline Road.
Correspondence from TII re Douglas East
(ii) Correspondence Depatment Education and Skills re proposed Educate Together School Rochestown/Douglas.
Correspondence from DoEd re Rochestown Educate Together
(iii) Correspondence from Planning Department re the Bond for the development at Maryborough.
Planning dept. info re Maryborough
Cllr Forde is not in the Chamber.
(iv) Correspondence from Environment Department re litterbins
Info from environment re enforcement
(v) Proposals for extra 30 kph zones within the Municipal District.
Special speed limit zones
Area Engineer: We’ve been given an opportunity to consider extending the 30 kph zones throughout the Municipal District and amend the bye-laws accordingly. Based on representations after the last time we did it and the layout and traffic in the different estates, is proposing these here. This is limited. The last time we got 5 estates, there are 6 here. If there are other estates you feel merit it more, we’ll have to drop some of these.
Cllr McGrath: Welcomes these. Knows that €15k was given to the County as a whole for this. That’s a very small allocation. Would like to see this introduced in all estates. We can do it only on a phased basis. Traffic calming and the need to reduce speed comes to us all the time. Mount Oval jumps out on the list because it hasn’t been taken in charge. Mentions Pinecroft as possibly being included.
AE: Mount Oval – the through road is taken in charge and there are pockets within the overall development that are taken in charge and more coming up for consideration. It is true to say that there is merit in saying that we should defer it if you have other estates to put forward.
The amount of traffic and the number of people living there means that everything to keep speed down should be done.
Need to investigate the legalities.
Cllr McGrath suggests that we check whether it is amongst the 100 estates that will be taken in charge this year.
AE: Maybe we leave this as is until the draft bye-laws are drawn up at the end of the year and then more will be clear.
Cllr Jeffers: This is very welcome. You can see the merits in the ones chosen – large estates with straight roads, ones with schools. Supports Pinecroft and mentions Ardfield for inclusion.
Cllr Canty: Was talking to Don in relation to two or three estates for inclusion in the Ballincollig area.
Cllr D’Alton asked if surveys had been done to show if the special speed limit is working. The choice of estates is good. We’d all like more but these estates all need it.
AE: Surveys that we have done show that the special speed limit is not making a difference. In Shamrock Lawn, we went back in and put in additional physical traffic calming measures. We hope that the special speed limits will become more common over time and so more noticed.
Cllr Forde asks about Green Valley and Bramble Hill. Could they be included in future list? Understands the budget is limited. New estates, adjacent to schools and playing pitches if we could target these.
Cllr Desmond: Also welcomes Maryborough and the others chosen. Wonders how we communicate this?
AE: They are subject to the normal public consultation period. Would go up on the Council website. Other than this, the estates see the signs go up. The signs are big and are at the entrance to the estates.
MDO says that he normally asks Members and Corporate Affairs to put bye-laws on social media. Also asks Tidy Towns groups to put them up on their social media. He uses the contacts in the areas.
Cllr Murphy: Agrees with Cllr McGrath – we get reports of estates that are not taken in charge. I put a motion in here two or three years ago to full Council: Jake’s Law. Is taking a long time to be brought in.
AE: This is a follow on from the Jake’s Law campaign. That’s where it started and it is being done on a phased basis.
Cllr Jeffers: Surveys – could you pass that information on to the gardai? Ask them to address it?
AE: Yes. We haven’t done that. Follows from Jake’s Law originally. Council committed to doing the 30 kph zones and if there was no perceived reduction that we’d have to consider other traffic calming measures.
Couldn’t see us being able to afford doing traffic calming in every single estate.
MKD: Asks about response from TII in relation to my motion re noise protection from the N40 on the Douglas village side of the flyover.
MDO: No, we never had acknowledgement or response. Will follow this up.
4. General Municipal Allocation/TDF
Vigour request for funding
Vigour report 2017
Proposed allocation to Harlequins
Twinning – doesn’t know if funding will be needed. Depends on the cycles.
Painting scheme – we allocatd €15k last year. Didn’t use it all. Hoping that we might push it even harder this year. So is increasing budget to €20k.
Environmental improvements – additional weedspraying, etc. That was for some of the lesser approaches. We already had funding for the main approaches to towns.
In general, we have supplemented the public funding by €20k every year. It has always been used fully every year.
The balance demonstrated is because we had to do footpath works. Then Area Office had to spend money around the airport and didn’t get to use it. So we’re carrying forward a balance.
Will meet Peter O’Donoghue and the AE in relation to the special spending from parking contributions in Douglas. This special spend will see €70-80k for Douglas.
Passage West Maritime Museum – CCC has to allocate €20k on top of the €100k obtained through the urban & village renewal funding. We’re hoping to get most of that from County funds. That will give a budget of €120k in total. Much of the background work is done. This week, work started on clearing out the old stuff inside. Would like to set aside the reserve budget as set out here in case anything is needed. We are making sure that everything that is in there is to museum standard. So if they want to go to Bord Fáilte or another, they’ll be at a good standard. This will stand to them when they’re looking for funding down the road. We may not need to use the €20k. It is in reserve.
Cllr Forde: Welcomes. Streetscape proposals that could be incorporated. Don’t just focus on footpaths – shrubberies in tubs, create that village feel. We have been asking for over the years.
Cllr D’Alton: Welcomes the spend in Douglas but asks that it would make decent streetscape improvements. Already asked that these would be addressed in our coming Douglas LUTS meeting. Asked also for consultation on improvements to streetscape so we wouldn’t have a situation as we did in Passage where there were streetscape improvements many think are a backward step. Litter on roadside verges between towns is appalling. Cogan’s Road is an example. Knows there is a limit to what we can litterpick but would really like to see us spend more on this. There is an issue with the spend on the entrances to towns. Last year, the whole width of the roadside verge into Passage West was sprayed so it was brown all summer. It looked appalling but was equally dreadful for biodiversity. Had we entered the Tidy Towns competition, we would have been slated. So please can we not do this kind of maintenance again next year.
A discussion about spraying followed – in town centre and elsewhere.
Cllr McGrath: Would like us to increase money to environmental stuff. Talks of within villages and towns too. Speaks particularly of approach to Douglas cemetery. Speaks of rat runs, e.g. roads between Shanbally and Raffeen village. Would like to see additional money go into those areas. Is not convinced about increasing the budget to the Painting Scheme. We put a lot of effort into it last time round. We could revamp – not sure how we might do this. Carrigaline are hosting the twinning this year. Is surprised that they haven’t been in touch.
The money to the museum is welcome. It is a great community project.
We need to look at getting the best bang for buck with this spend.
Agrees with Cllr D’Alton about the litter problem.
Cllr Canty: Ballincollig twinning are travelling this year. Wellbeing Festival – was there last year. It was a very wet day. Still good crowds turned up. They’d like to do one more year in Ballincollig to cement it in. They were unfortunate in the weather.
Cllr Murphy: Had a good few enquiries about the painting scheme. Asks about signage for Ardmore. Does it come under this? People who took up the funding are people who live in the area. In a lot of rented properties, people didn’t. Can we chase these?
Cllr Jeffers: Welcomes generally. Reserves for Passage museum very good. Potential for significant funding for Douglas is welcome. This is money that will actively make a different. It is important when spending this money that we get the best for it. The painting scheme might have to be rejigged. Would like to see eradication of neon lights, use signage/artwork instead. Marian Terrace and Grange Cottages on Grange Road needed. Has raised this before. Grange/Donnybrook – when you come into Donnybrook Hill, green side. Grange Heights landscaping outside. Signage there would improve. Douglas Tidy Towns have erected two wooden posts that have now gone bare. Maybe a bit of character would be given to these central points.
Cllr Harris: 12-17 year olds have very little recreational facilities in Douglas. We need a skatepark or something for this age group. There are hundreds of them congregating in different parts of Douglas. They hang out in the shopping centre. We have no pool hall, table tennis hall, etc.
Cllr Desmond: Welcomes report. Has huge interest in the environment area. It is a black hole for money. We need to discuss this more. Welcomes paint scheme. Is very conscious of changes in Douglas. Delighted to see that Douglas is very much on the map because it looks very pitiful. There is no village feel left at all. We’re all singing off the same hymn sheet on Douglas.
Cllr Forde also asks for consultation on streetscape improvements.
MDO: in relation to the environmental improvements: this is additional to the main approaches to towns money. The environmental improvements here is for the non-main approaches. We have a balance in the TDF. If we do allocate this money there is still money left.
Put forward ideas for next month. It will be much easier if we can all have something to look at in advance.
Cllr McGrath asks about more money for verge maintenance.
The Municipal District grant to Harlequins was approved.
Cllr D’Alton wants to readdress the black hole that environmental improvements have been described as. The spraying, etc. is done but often people don’t see that it has because growth is so vigorous. Has asked before that a log be maintained of when spraying, etc. is carried out. Knows this is difficult but we do need to keep track of what is done where, otherwise it will continue to be a black hole.
AE agrees but says they may be limited with spraying because of the weather. It is very difficult to deal with efficiently. There has been no spraying for the past month because temperatures have been cold.
We will think about this, come forward with suggestions and talk about it next month again.
5. Streetscape painting, signage and improvement scheme
Streetscape painting and signage
MDO: Scheme is very much the same as we have had. The slight differences in that where a person undertakes the works themselves, they can get 100% of the cost of materials. We gave only a portion last year. The closing date is Fri 1 June. Areas in which the scheme will operate this year are Passage West, Douglas and Ringaskiddy. In Passage West, experience last year was that identifying ownership of the property was an issue. Also many buildings are three storey and it creates a lot of extra work compared to the normal 2 storey. We are proposing that if residents get together where there are three storey buildings, we will be flexible with the amount of funding that we will grant. We will talk to applicants about these. At the end of the scheme last year, people made contact and it was too late. Or they made contact and the weather changed.
Cllr McGrath: Is 100% funding of materials appropriate? Thinks 75 or 80% is enough.
MDO: This has become the norm in other MDs.
Cllr D’Alton: The greatest complaint I received last year was about the choice of colours on the application form. Many people didn’t like them. Thought they were dull.
MDO: We are very open to colour suggestions; we will not be sticking with what is on the form.
6. Village enhancement scheme
MDO: Propose to use the Village Enhancement Scheme in Ringaskiddy this year, specifically Gobby Beach. The Architects have been meetings with local residents. The MDO will send on the plans when he gets them.
Cllr D’Alton: Fantastic because Gobby is the only point at which the harbour can be accessed from Ringaskiddy. Very well used and the car park has been looking very tired.
Cllrs McGrath and Jeffers welcomed this also.
7. Town approaches 2018
Approaches to towns
Cllr D’Alton: Cllr McGrath has been asking for a barrier at a spot at the top of Church Hill to protect cars from falling into the ditch. Very beautiful view from this point. Would it be possible to tarmac the area in addition to providing the barrier so that enjoying the view could be formalised? It is an approach to Passage West town.
AE: The road is very narrow at this point and the ground is private. Do not think this would be possible.
8. Notices of Motion
To consider the following Notices of Motion in the name of:
Cllr. D Forde
- “That the Engineer gives a report on what actions can and should be taken on Church Street to deter illegal parking on the footpath which is a danger to pedestrians.”
Response to Forde’s motion re Church St.
- “That the Engineer gives a written report on
- The status of improvement design for Coach Hill and outline possible funding streams for the project which is urgently needed on safety issues.
- In the interim cut back the shrubbery to widen the roadway.
- Improve lighting for pedestrians.”
Response to Forde’s motion re Coach Hilll
AE says she has driven the road twice and knows that there is little growth at this time of year. Knows there is a pinch point but there is no impinging shrubbery at the moment. Will cut if it grows but it isn’t there now. Also they are happy to add to public lighting in areas where there are safety concerns, they are not keen to augment lights where there isn’t a footpath.
Cllr Forde: there is a planning going through for the Educate Together which will be increasing footfall. Hears what the AE is saying. We have to put it on more than the long finger. Tom Stritch says he’ll have a look at it.
AE says she will liaise with him.
- “That the Engineer gives a written report on action to be taken to increase the safety of residents/vehicles exiting and turning right at Douglas Lawn adjacent to Bow Wow Bridge.”
Cllr Forde: Was promised bollards under the Bow Wow bridge about 15 years ago. Families are moved into Douglas Lawn now. Even going to Mass they need somewhere safe to walk.
AE: There are motorists of speed everywhere but that particular stretch of road has all the relevant traffic calming features: a bend – a short stretch of road – narrowing. It is difficult to assess what nature of speed is there. We are going to sit down with Peter to look at Douglas. Will see what could possibly be done. Have asked the property section to approach the property between the BW bridge and the entrance to the estate that is blocking footpath connectivity and not helping visibility. Yellow box isn’t a speed reduction measure. There are 25 houses in Douglas Lawn. Has no problem with a yellow box if traffic can’t get out but if traffic is flying by, a yellow box isn’t going to help you get out.
Cllr. M Murphy
- “That the Engineer considers the inclusion of Ardmore Estate as part of the works programme for 2018.”
Cllr Murphy: In the top terrace in particular the roads are bad.
AE: Wasn’t 100% sure what the notice of motion was about but knows that the top terrace is one of the worst left. The footpaths are old as well. It’s too big to do it all in one go but we might be able to tackle the top terrace road surface.
Cllr McGrath says he supports this as a former resident of the estate.
- “That the Engineer considers installing Traffic Calming measures, possibly signage, on the road from Maulbaun to the Old Graveyard.”
Cllr Murphy: A dog was killed there by a refuse truck. A resident there says people are speeding.
Cllr. M D’Alton
- “That this Municipal District Committee would submit an observation to An Bord Pleanála in support of Aldi’s planning application for the former Eurospar supermarket, Passage West on the grounds that:
– The proposed delivery of the Aldi service into an existing supermarket building is very badly needed in Passage West.
– Passage West is a satellite town with notably poor retail offerings for its resident population.
– The grounds on which the appeal has been taken have been proven to be not relevant as Eurospar formerly operated out of this building for many years.
– The provision of supermarket-sized convenience retail within Passage West would alleviate the need for residents to travel to meet their shopping needs and would consequently reduce traffic congestion to and in the adjacent settlements of Douglas and Carrigaline.”
This is no longer necessary. Cllr D’Alton welcomed the fact that the Aldi development is going ahead.
- “That Cork County Council would install a pelican crossing at the current uncontrolled crossing location outside St. Peter’s Community School, Passage West.”
Cllr D’Alton: There is an uncontrolled crossing there at present. Cars queue in the mornings going to both the primary and secondary schools. They also park along the road. People and children in particular are crossing between the cars. A pelican crossing could be used when the school is busy at start and finishing times but allow traffic to flow unhindered for the rest of the day.
Cllr McGrath said he has spoken to the AE about this in the past and supports the request.
AE: Went up there during the week to look. Cars stop on the yellow hatching. For that reason there would be merit in putting in the controlled crossing. The morning I was up there, there were cars everywhere. But if a controlled crossing is to be installed, there must be 3 car lengths either side where parking would be prohibited. The entrance to Barr an Bhaile would be within that zone. For the crossing to work, you can’t have cars parking beside it. So parking will be reduced and it is obviously at a premium. Therefore thinks it will cause a problem. Would prefer to see one of the school wardens used there.
Cllr D’Alton: There are two traffic wardens at the primary school. Both are necessary because there are two crossings. But we have also had resources issues with providing additional traffic wardens.
Cllr McGrath said that he has been pushing wardens for a long time and has been advised that infrastructure was the way to go because the resources weren’t there for traffic wardens.
Cllr. E Jeffers & Cllr. M Murphy
- “That this Municipal District would request the Tourism Section of Cork County Council to develop a tourism strategy for Carrigaline and surrounding areas of the Lower Harbour. This strategy should have a specific aim of attracting tourists who arrive via the port in Ringaskiddy, to these areas as key destinations.”
Cllr Jeffers: This is a gateway in Cork County on the southern side of the city. So much can be done in these towns. The GAA clubs are doing GAA tours on north side of the city.
Cllr Jeffers said much more in praise of the potential of Carrigaline and the harbour towns.
Cllr Murphy spoke of the Passage West Museum which is soon to open, the potential of using the river and the promise of connecting Passage West/Monkstown with the boat that serves Spike Island
Cllr McGrath also supports; says this area should receive more attention from the tourism section. It has a cluster of attractions – greenways – museum – ferry. Facilities need to be provided such as camping. This requires investment.
Cllr D’Alton referred to the motion she has had on the agendas of the last few full Council meetings. Proposes that the military fortifications of the Lower Harbour and Spike Island would, with the fortifications right up to Ballincollig, be designated a World Heritage Site. What we have in the Lower Harbour is very valuable. Supports the motion.
Cllr Desmond voiced her support too.
Cllr. S McGrath
- “To ask the Engineer to examine pedestrian safety in the vicinity of Scoil Phadraig Naofa, Rochestown.”
Cllr McGrath reads a section of an email he received. There are 501 pupils in Scoil Phadraig Naofa.
Cllr Desmond says she has already spoken to the AE about this.
The AE said she has been discussions with the BoM and parents in the last number of years. The official line in relation to development of this nature is that the planning application will include a road safety audit. When construction is complete, a closing road safety audit is done. It is supposed to tackle exactly these types of issues. In this case, the closing road safety audit was done last September. The Area Office has asked for the report but hasn’t received it. Planning hasn’t received it either. It would be wrong to step in and do other works before the recommendations of the audit are known. Confirms Cllr Desmond has been in touch about this.
- “To seek an update on the upgrade of the Ballinrea/Cork Road roundabout and the infrastructural improvements associated with the development of the Education Campus.”
Cllr McGrath: We are aware that the special contribution has been paid over. It is approximately €800,ooo. Where are we at now? Is the design work underway? Hopes the uncontrolled crossing near the roundabout will be upgraded. Cost of the works?
AE: You have raised so many issues that we might go away and do a report. This is being handled by the Design Office. Can’t give specific answers. Tried to get something for today’s meeting but the relevant people weren’t available. Can say that the contributions are not enough. Council own funds will need to supplement the works.
Cllr Jeffers speaks in support as well.
- “To seek an update from the Engineer on the acquisition of the mobile speed feedback signs for this MD.”
Cllr McGrath: A policy was approved for this. Wonders about the community involvement element of this policy. Wonders whether it has been used in our MD.
Cllr D’Alton: Confirms that the policy requires community involvement and regular moving of the signs. Spoke to the Area Office about this in the past couple of weeks. Hoped to obtain signs for use at Coolmore Cross and that they could be moved between here, Shanbally and the entrance to Ringaskiddy. Very difficult to use the policy in a community such as, for example, Mon